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I think you are missing the point of the water analogies. It is what made electricity make sense to me as well. But don't take it too literally, it's an analogy, not an identity.

If you start with things like "a motor is like a turbine, a generator is like a pump, a battery is like an elevated tank", a lot of things can fall into place. The point is you can visualize it.



It's hardly fair to say that water analogies are good but "capacitors store charge" is bad, they are both weak analogies


There's nothing weak about saying capacitors store charge. That's exactly what they do. You measure charge in coulombs, which is how you count electrons. Capacitance is just the value that relates stored coulombs of charge to available voltage.


I didn't agree with what you wrote and maybe I can explain why. Springs store inches. You measure displacement in inches. Spring constant is just the value that relates stored inches to available force.

(You can swap roles of force and displacement if you wish, the point is the same. It sounds bad to say springs store force or displacement, to me.)


But inches are an abstract measurement of distance. Electrons are a thing.

(Well, depending on who you ask... no one has ever seen one, and some people have claimed half-jokingly there's only one electron in the entire universe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-electron_universe .)


So, you're saying that capacitors store electrons?!

Debunking this particular conception was the whole point of my capacitor article http://amasci.com/emotor/cap1.html

Capacitors "store" electrons, like springs "store" steel, or rubber bands "store" rubber. A charged capacitor has exactly the same number of electrons as an "uncharged" capacitor.

When "charging" a capacitor, charge is forced into one terminal, and exactly equal charge comes out of the other terminal. No electrons build up inside, nor are placed into it. They've just been moved around inside, same as the steel spring, or the spherical tank in the water analogy.

What then do capacitors store? EXACTLY! That's the questions that students should be asking. They won't think to ask it, if they've been taught that capacitors are like buckets full of electrons. Well, what does a steel spring store? Or a stretched rubber band? KG of steel or rubber? Nope. Capacitors store joules, not coulombs.

The above concepts open the way to unifying several ideas: capacitors store charge in the same way that inductors store charge! In both components, energy is stored, as e-fields in the case of capacitors, b-fields in the case of conductors.


Capacitors store joules, not coulombs.

Fair enough -- a two-terminal capacitor that stored electrons supplied via one terminal could be charged without drawing any corresponding current at the other, violating Kirchoff. I do like your water-filled sphere analogy, and I agree that the word "charge" is an overloaded term.

But what would you say is happening at the top electrode of a Van de Graaff generator? It represents a reservoir of stored (positive) charge. Electrons have been physically moved outside the device, and we use the same language to describe this process -- that of capacitance.

I guess the argument would be that the objects in the room constitute the other terminal of the capacitor, with the intervening empty space forming the "dielectric," and that the electrons removed from the sphere aren't associated with the sphere at all, but have just been moved from one region of the dielectric to another?


Yep, a VDG machine is not a single-ended device. I tell people that there are always two spheres involved, although usually the second sphere is below our feet: planet Earth. Charge conservation says that, with a VDG, the e-field flux extends between the upper metal sphere and the ground below it. So, to concentrate attention on just the charged sphere, while ignoring the oppositely-charged ground surface, is much like concentrating on just one plate of any capacitor.

Better: hang many different metal spheres from insulating threads, then use a HV supply to deposit various charges upon them. "Capacitor" is always taken to mean a pair of opposite-charged objects. But miscellaneous "charged objects" aren't necessarily capacitors.

Also, this:

ENGINEER'S CAPACITOR, not physicists'

http://amasci.com/emotor/enCap.html

While employed at MOS in Boston I temporarily threw together a floating, double-ended VDG with a battery/motor inside one sphere. Like this: http://amasci.com/emotor/vdgdesc.html#diff

I thought it would much better communicate the true nature of electrostatic generators, but it never ended up in our exhibit. VDGs are just constant-current high-voltage power supplies. A long enough chain of 9V batteries would produce all the same phenomena ...aside from the 10amp short circuit current, and the megawatt arcing!

PS, weirdness

With VDGs I was triggering three separate kinds of spark. I've not seen this discussed anywhere. We have the usual kind, the thin straight "needle" that jumps between smooth spheres. Then we have the violet fractal tree. Attach a 1cm ball to a VDG sphere and watch in a darkened room. It periodically spits foot-wide lightning networks, just like the miles-wide kind. And third: occasionally I was getting "silent purple sausage" discharge about an inch thick and a couple feet long. In a lighted room they make a slight "thump" sound, so if you hear that noise from a VDG, try observing in total darkness. Sometimes the "sausage" would even produce branching (possibly nanosecond wave effects,) when it would leap out 1ft, then split into five branches from the tip, then proceed to the adjacent metal wall as five fuzzy pathways. Perhaps the particular "seed" at the micro-scale will determine the type of spark which propagates? Or maybe the "sausage" discharge was actually a relativistic effect seeded by MeV cosmic rays.


Wheeler didn't really claim that the one-electron universe was literally true or even a useful model, but the observation that one cannot draw a clear difference between a particle in a (classical) field in flat spacetime with an enormously complicated worldline and many indistinguishible particles in the same field with straightforward timelike worldlines is a fairly deep insight into the symmetries of flat spacetime, particularly the translation symmetries. They were also on the cusp of spontaneous symmetry breaking while wondering about the missing positrons.

Given that this was decades before the Standard Model was formalized (one-electron, ca. 1940; Glashow electroweak spontaneously broken symmetry, 1967), I think that the one-electron thinking was incredibly productive (especially since Feynman credits it with some insights into what became his path integral formalism).

It's not that one-electron was (or even could be) fully in line with available evidence that was important, but rather that it connected the full symmetries of the Poincaré group (the isometry group of Minkowski spacetime, which is the spacetime of Special Relativity, particle indistinguishability, and representation theory.

The results of the this excited and informal conversation are still found in particle paradigms of quantum field theories (e.g. the Standard Model).

"Electrons are a thing" gets much trickier outside of Minkowski spacetime, however. In non-flat spacetime, the Unruh effect "is a thing", and one consequence is that different observers will disagree on particle count, and even on the interpretation of quantized excitations in the fields as (asymptotic) particles. Unless general covariance is abolished, which seems really hard to do, none of these observers is any more right than any of the others; the number of particles is simply not well-defined locally. Worse, a generally covariant formalism exposes that this is the case in flat spacetime too (e.g. Rindler observers of a patch of a quantum field are not "less right" than another observer at a constant interval from that patch, even if one sees a huge lake of energetic particles and the other sees no particles there at all).

An everywhere-in-spacetime electron field thing is probably a thing in our universe, though. But there are several different descriptions of it... :)


What?? Okay then count by lengths of the spacing of carbon molecules in graphite, or Plank lengths, or whatever.

I don't see why your objection is on inches or otherwise any unit I chose for dimension of length.


If you compress a spring, and then heat it, what happens to the stored inches?


Can you clarify what your point is? I don't know how to answer the question, because springs don't store inches. If you are making a point about why the spring/inches analogy was bad, I'd like to hear it.




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