> The world is a big place - we don't all share a monolith of values.
I am not asking the world: I am asking you, an individual human who assuredly stands for something (and hell: we know you at least stand for this, as you decided to stop using Firefox over it ;P).
> Ask yourself why there is no outrage at every company that posts rainbow flags on US brand pages but refuses to do the same on their UAE brand pages.
FWIW, I would presume the answer is "because most people don't realize that companies might be doing that"; however, I also take issue with the example: not going out of your way to display support for something is, in fact, different than actively taking action to undermine it... someone who doesn't show a flag might still support something, but someone who actively donates against something clearly doesn't.
> In a nutshell: I am glad that the Christian monks kept the work of all those 'evil pagans' through the dark ages. The candle of Western Civilization could have gone dark if they had religiously burned the works of those they disagreed with... I worry this is a direction we are headed as a cyber culture.
You do realize that no one has suggested deleting all the copies of Firefox, to prevent future generations from seeing it--the equivalent of your pretty-ridiculous scenario--right? That hasn't even been in question AFAIK even in jest, as Brandon Eich didn't even personally make Firefox. Nor, FWIW, is this about people deciding to abandoning JavaScript or something, unless I missed something?
Hell: your framing here is extremely strange when you realize that this isn't even about Firefox the product... except for you! You are in fact the person who decided to "cancel" (as they say) Firefox: you are the person who decided to stop using Firefox because it was being made by people who refused to actively stand up and support a man who donated money towards Prop 8. The people you are upset with were not attempting to destroy the work that is Firefox, they wanted to not work with the person who is Brandon Eich.
And that's solely what this is about: "should Brandon Eich have been removed as CTO of Mozilla?". Remember both that CTO is a a very public position for an organization like that, and that CTO is a position of power over a number of people who work on tech at the company... some of whom Brandon Eich was actively saying "I don't respect your existence" by way of his donating to ban gay marriage. I'm not gay, but I know and care deeply about a number of gay people... hell, I would be surprised if you didn't also (even if you didn't know they were gay).
By saying that you have decided to stop using Firefox because the employees of Firefox should not have revolted against Brandon Eich, you are thereby not only cancelling the work of a number of people you disagree with--which is something you claim to have serious moral issues with while not being something the people you are seemingly trying to punish were doing (so you can't claim "I'm only doing it because they would do it to me" or whatever)--but you are seriously saying that you expect that all of those people who were at Mozilla should suck it up and keep working with and for someone who, in his "personal life", worked to undermine their lives.
Truly: all of your fretting over people destroying the work of the "evil pagans" is off topic, whether it makes you feel better to frame it like that or not.
> I want discourse because that is how we learn and bring others to enlightenment. I (correctly) saw that move with firefox as a broad move in the general us political ecosystem to "unperson" those on the right/left who don't feel the same as you. I.e. "Trump is Hitler", "Obama is a Terrorist" the schoolyard branding in concerning because it does not help any of us get better or connect on a human level.
Ummm... are you missing that Brandon Eich made the first move here, taking action against gay people by fiscally supporting a ban on gay marriage, which I will strongly claim is "unpersoning" those whom he disagreed with? I haven't seen any kind of mass movement of gay people going out of their way to attempt to ban Christianity, or did I miss that also? Why should everyone be forced to tolerate him?
> I guess I feel like what happened with Brandon is a good example of that fear manifest.
Well, Brandon Eich seems to want gay people to fear him, so... :/.
> What if, for example, my support of Edward Snowden makes me the next Emmanuel Goldstein, target of two minutes hate for the altar of some agenda? That scares the shit out of me- I don't like it.
This just seems super unrelated, as I'm not sure what group of people you would be actively showing disrespect for by supporting Edward Snowden. Maybe you could expand on this analogy?
Eich wasn't removed as CTO. He remained CTO after his material support for discrimination became public knowledge. He resigned as CEO after it became clear he couldn't lead the company effectively.
> I am not asking the world: I am asking you, an individual human who assuredly stands for something (and hell: we know you at least stand for this, as you decided to stop using Firefox over it ;P).
How about standing for leaving politics at the door of the work environment and freedom of expression?
> FWIW, I would presume the answer is "because most people don't realize that companies might be doing that"; however, I also take issue with the example: not going out of your way to display support for something is, in fact, different than actively taking action to undermine it... someone who doesn't show a flag might still support something, but someone who actively donates against something clearly doesn't.
Once you've gone out of the way to show it on one account, going out of the way to not do it on another is essentially the same thing and hasn't drawn ire.
> You do realize that no one has suggested deleting all the copies of Firefox,
You're feigning ignorance and creating a strawman. The movement that forced Eich out advocates for censorship and destruction of ideas and information. You were the one who made up the story about deleting all copies of Firefox.
> Remember both that CTO is a a very public position for an organization like that
Now that is an argument. If the organisation has made efforts to climb into bed with a modern religion and the CTO commits a sin then yes, removal makes sense but it should never have got to this point.
> By saying that you have decided to stop using Firefox because the employees of Firefox should not have revolted against Brandon Eich, you are thereby not only cancelling the work of a number of people you disagree with
No "cancelling" as you put it and most likely as the person you are replying to understands it involves mob justice forcing people out of careers and forcing the removal of ideas from platforms. Deciding not to use something is a personal choice.
> Truly: all of your fretting over people destroying the work of the "evil pagans" is off topic, whether it makes you feel better to frame it like that or not.
When you make a three paragraph strawman argument it can seem that way but while "your truth" may be that it is unrelated, the reality is different.
> Ummm... are you missing that Brandon Eich made the first move here, taking action against gay people by fiscally
He expressed his political opinion through excepted channels. He didn't incite a mob. Again there's an argument he couldn't be at the head of an organisation with the religious connections it has but again it should never have got to that stage.
I am not asking the world: I am asking you, an individual human who assuredly stands for something (and hell: we know you at least stand for this, as you decided to stop using Firefox over it ;P).
> Ask yourself why there is no outrage at every company that posts rainbow flags on US brand pages but refuses to do the same on their UAE brand pages.
FWIW, I would presume the answer is "because most people don't realize that companies might be doing that"; however, I also take issue with the example: not going out of your way to display support for something is, in fact, different than actively taking action to undermine it... someone who doesn't show a flag might still support something, but someone who actively donates against something clearly doesn't.
> In a nutshell: I am glad that the Christian monks kept the work of all those 'evil pagans' through the dark ages. The candle of Western Civilization could have gone dark if they had religiously burned the works of those they disagreed with... I worry this is a direction we are headed as a cyber culture.
You do realize that no one has suggested deleting all the copies of Firefox, to prevent future generations from seeing it--the equivalent of your pretty-ridiculous scenario--right? That hasn't even been in question AFAIK even in jest, as Brandon Eich didn't even personally make Firefox. Nor, FWIW, is this about people deciding to abandoning JavaScript or something, unless I missed something?
Hell: your framing here is extremely strange when you realize that this isn't even about Firefox the product... except for you! You are in fact the person who decided to "cancel" (as they say) Firefox: you are the person who decided to stop using Firefox because it was being made by people who refused to actively stand up and support a man who donated money towards Prop 8. The people you are upset with were not attempting to destroy the work that is Firefox, they wanted to not work with the person who is Brandon Eich.
And that's solely what this is about: "should Brandon Eich have been removed as CTO of Mozilla?". Remember both that CTO is a a very public position for an organization like that, and that CTO is a position of power over a number of people who work on tech at the company... some of whom Brandon Eich was actively saying "I don't respect your existence" by way of his donating to ban gay marriage. I'm not gay, but I know and care deeply about a number of gay people... hell, I would be surprised if you didn't also (even if you didn't know they were gay).
By saying that you have decided to stop using Firefox because the employees of Firefox should not have revolted against Brandon Eich, you are thereby not only cancelling the work of a number of people you disagree with--which is something you claim to have serious moral issues with while not being something the people you are seemingly trying to punish were doing (so you can't claim "I'm only doing it because they would do it to me" or whatever)--but you are seriously saying that you expect that all of those people who were at Mozilla should suck it up and keep working with and for someone who, in his "personal life", worked to undermine their lives.
Truly: all of your fretting over people destroying the work of the "evil pagans" is off topic, whether it makes you feel better to frame it like that or not.
> I want discourse because that is how we learn and bring others to enlightenment. I (correctly) saw that move with firefox as a broad move in the general us political ecosystem to "unperson" those on the right/left who don't feel the same as you. I.e. "Trump is Hitler", "Obama is a Terrorist" the schoolyard branding in concerning because it does not help any of us get better or connect on a human level.
Ummm... are you missing that Brandon Eich made the first move here, taking action against gay people by fiscally supporting a ban on gay marriage, which I will strongly claim is "unpersoning" those whom he disagreed with? I haven't seen any kind of mass movement of gay people going out of their way to attempt to ban Christianity, or did I miss that also? Why should everyone be forced to tolerate him?
> I guess I feel like what happened with Brandon is a good example of that fear manifest.
Well, Brandon Eich seems to want gay people to fear him, so... :/.
> What if, for example, my support of Edward Snowden makes me the next Emmanuel Goldstein, target of two minutes hate for the altar of some agenda? That scares the shit out of me- I don't like it.
This just seems super unrelated, as I'm not sure what group of people you would be actively showing disrespect for by supporting Edward Snowden. Maybe you could expand on this analogy?